i had an experience of community last night
a sort of reunion of members of a christian discussion group
one of our members
who is now a missionary
was in town for a couple of weeks
which precipitated the reunion
in our discussion after dinner
she asked us each to respond to the question
what has been the biggest change in your life
in the past year?
it was interesting to hear the responses
both from people i have not seen
in quite some time
and from those with whom i have been
in more frequent contact
but with whom i have not had
opportunity to share deeply
i felt very encouraged
by these fellow pilgrims
by the ones who had passionate vision
and by the ones struggling to hear
what God is saying
i shared
or tried to share
regarding the current
that seems to be tugging me
toward Catholicism
i found myself struggling for words
unable to explain it
even now
i am not really able
to explain it to myself
even as i come across things
in the Catholic church
that i think
well yeah
maybe i do have
a protest against this
the current is still there
dragging me farther in
toward what feels like the center
i don't understand it
ironically
i think i felt most encouraged
but the group member whose journey
is most opposite to mine
michael
who for as long as i have known him
has been a very actively involved
lay leader within the local baptist church
announced that he stopped attending church
a few months ago
and has a desire to plant a church
he spoke of some book
by george barna which indicates that
there is no correlation between
a person's level of commitment to christ
and church attendance
and that in fact many of the most
committed christians
are outside of the church
so here i am
on this path toward
trying to unite myself
as much as possible
to the church
to the whole church
even with all her
present imperfections
and here he is
passionately moving
away from the church
in search of a more
authentic life with God
yet he doesn't want to be a loner
or a hermit
no his is not the contemplative nature
he wants community
he is passionate about community
he wants authentic christian community
and that inspires me
i suppose he is
the quintessential protestant
he wants to start over
to create a new church
and to get it right this time
(how many times
has that happened
in protestant history?)
yet i was encouraged
by his passion and vision
i wonder how we keep
all of this wonderous stuff
that God is doing
within the church
so that all can benefit from it?
michael obviously feels
that he cannot pursue
his vision within the confines
of the baptist church
too much inertia there i suppose
too hard to get all those
nominal christians on board
i suppose if michael
had grown up catholic
he might have ended up being
the founder of a new religious order
that seems to be the way
for zealous individuals
to pursue their visions
while remaining inside the church
so that their gifts can be
of benefit to the church
something about that
seems healthier than
leaving the rest of the church behind
still
i remain inspired
by michael's zeal
for some reason
this train of thought
is reminding me of
a recent conversation with
high school teachers
about the "no child left behind" policy
how it basically enshrined
a standard of mediocrity
and eliminated programs
designed to challenge and inspire
the brightest students
within the church
of course we don't want
to leave anyone behind
but there must also be
attention to the spiritual needs
of those who desire to move
beyond the basics
i think michael is finding
his spiritual needs unmet
in the mediocrity of the baptist church
i think my attraction to the Catholic church
in part at least
has a similar basis
a need for a deeper
more authentic christian community
than what i was finding
in my present church
whether or not i will find that need met
in the catholic church remains to be seen
and even if it is met there
i would also not want
to "leave behind" my
presbyterian and evangelical siblings
but would want to remain
in communion with them
Sally,
ReplyDeleteA nice post. May I ask whether you're draw to Catholicism per se, or if the pull comes from specific Catholic communities? I make no judgment either way, and certainly have no desire to discourage from your path.
My experience, which naturally comes with its own blinders and limits, is that there's no discernable correlation between denominational affiliation and authentic community. And this presents modern Christians with a dilemma. Do they seek to align themselves with the most authentic local community, irrespective of denomination? Or do they remain within a denomination, even at the cost of a weaker local community, and try to raise it? Or, and this may be the most challenging path of all, and seeming the path that you're on, do they try to serve as a bridge, with one foot in each community? Again, I make no judgment, as it seems to me that the right answer for one might not be the right answer for another. We each have our own calling.
I do find in Michael's seeking evidence of the error that Bonhoeffer so eloquently described, and that is being ensnared by a vision of an ideal church, so much so that any real church ends up feeling like an ungodly failure by comparison. I hope that I am wrong.
Peace
thanks for your thoughtful words here
ReplyDeletewhat an interesting description of
some sort of certainty and your progression
even amid doubts on a path
how do we ONE it all
ut unum sint
my belief holds that there is sufficient substance for unity in teh christian family no matter how fractured and divided
the wisdom is inherent
and we can find it
much like the japanese tea ceremony does not
allow for class or caste
all are alwasy equal at the tea table
so it is as we seek perfection
in the body and blood of christ
reception is not an honorarium
the ennobling is about the recognition that we are sinners in need
and this is the common denominator
all the rest is
i feel
there for our help
along the way
and all manner fo thing shall be well
jh
thanks stu & jh
ReplyDeletelet me first try to respond to stu
am i drawn to catholicism itself
or to specific catholic communities?
in the beginning it was definitely
specific catholic communities--
first st. andrew's abbey in valyermo, california
and then later st john's abbey
in collegeville minnesota
where i met jh
i think the first thing that appealed to me
was the rhythm of work and prayer
that i saw lived out in benedictine monasteries
at that time (~ A.D. 2000) i was careening
out of control with busyness in my work
placing unrealistic demands on myself
and allowing others to do so as well
it was liberating for me to see
christians living by the rule that
when the bell rings for prayer
you put down whatever you are doing
and "immediately but without haste"
proceed to join in the appointed hour
of communal prayer
it was liberating to realize
that i could (and should) create
such boundaries in my own life
like setting a time to leave work
and go home for dinner
instead staying every night until i was finished
with what i perceived had to get done that day
whether it took me until 6 pm, 7 pm or 8 pm
and then arriving home tired, hungry and cranky
another thing that appealed to me from the beginning
was the involvement of my whole body in worship
especially bowing and kneeling
i found that these acts
felt good
they connected me with
a sense of honor and respect
for other human beings and for God
to this day one of the most beautiful things
that i have witnessed is the way
the monks of st john's process in
for evening prayer on sundays
they march into the sanctuary
in two parallel lines
as they approach the alter
the heads of the two lines
bow first to the altar
then they turn and bow to each other
before proceeding to their seat
in the choir stalls
this is followed by each succeeding pair
until the entire assembly has taken its place
something about this act
of two people bowing to each other
seems profound to me
especially considering the fact
that these men live together
they may have just argued over dinner
but now they bow to the image of God in each other
ah...
i'm just getting started
but the appointed hour has come
for me to set aside what i am doing
and go to my work
more later ...
thanks for asking
bowing to you both
and to J
if he is listening
sally
Sally,
ReplyDeleteI like your follow-up even more than the OP, and that's saying a lot.
Certainly, my life right now has me longing for the bucolic vision of life depicted in Koyaanisqatsi. 'twill get better, I'm sure. I just hope it does so before I reach thermal equilibrium. I'm in my mid-50's now, a point in life where you're expected to pick up your yokes in the morning, and pull into the night. I'm not complaining, it's just life, and these days there are far too many people aching for a yoke to pull.
But there is a trap in the academic life. Part of never having to punch in is that you never get to punch out, either. "Professor" isn't a job, it's a vocation. As I sometimes ruefully joke, the nice thing about being a Professor is that you can work any eighty hours a week you want to. The problem, of course, is that those eighty hour work weeks are rarely as productive as you'd wish. Forty hours, with proper exercise and sleep, will sustain a higher productivity than eighty hours, week after week. But there's always that pull, that trap. Just this week, I can work just a bit longer, and get just a bit more done.
Like you, I find worship as a time when the yokes can be set down. I agree that that kinesthetic approaches to worship, whether of the standup, sit down, pray, sing, pray of the liturgical churches, or the jump up and down and shout "Alleluia!" of the black churches, are salutary. Worship is not a spectator sport. Movement, song, and liturgical response help in keeping people present in worship.
Your description of the monks processing to the altar, and bowing to one another, reminds me in a funny way of the tradition in some sports, especially contact sports, of the teams lining up and shaking hands with one another at the end of the game. Rugby teams take this one step further: the home team is expected to provide a post-game "feast." In adult rugby, the feast is mostly drunk, and soon the players are too. My son's a rugby player... The "game" is not just the game, it's the game and the feast. It's being able to compete for all you're worth, and then to turn around and celebrate life with the folks you competed against as with friends.
This is not schizophrenic. It is balanced.
stu
ReplyDeleteit is good to be reminded
of the concept of vocation
i am at a university
where the faculty are unionized
and so it is easy to lapse into thinking
of teaching as merely a job
the concept of vocation
has a greater sense of wholeness to it
i think
teaching and research
then become just a part
of the greater whole
to which God is calling me
a whole that includes
sleep
exercise
prayer
time to prepare and eat healthy meals
time with family and friends
time to listen to the person
who shows up on the doorstep
of my home or my office
for me the urge
to get just a little bit more
done today
can become a form of greed
not greed for money
but greed for acclaim
and a lack of contentment
with the length of the day
that God has created
or with the degree of efficiency
with which he has enabled me
to work today
having said all that though
there are still numerous occasions
where working late seems to be
the only way to meet a proposal deadline
or to be prepared for the next day's class
i'm sure the pressures are even greater
at the university of chicago
than at california state university
thanks jh
ReplyDeletei like what you said
about our unity consisting of
being sinners in need
continuing to answer stu's original question...
Another thing that attracts me to the Catholic church is their theologians and intellectual tradition. This attraction is probably the result of my background being mostly in the evangelical church, which I experienced to be mildly anti-intellectual. It was refreshing to visit Benedictine monasteries where very smart people had thought very carefully about Christian faith. I'm sure that I could find this in many parts of the Protestant church as well, but where I happened to find it was in the Catholic church.
Before my sabbatical at the Collegeville Institue for Ecumenical and Cultural Studies in 2006, I struggled with trying to come to terms with the Gospel message as proclaimed by the evangelical church. I wanted to be a good Christian, and in the evangelical church that meant evangelizing, and I just could not figure out how to explain to anyone else (or to myself, for that matter) why Jesus had to die in order for God to forgive our sins. I was aware of multiple models for the atonement, but substitutionary sacrifice was pretty much the one and only model that was whole-heartedly endorsed and taught by the evangelical churches. Even John Stott's book, Basic Christianity, which I read at that time, gave pretty much the same message as Bill Bright's Four Spiritual Laws. I don't recall it mentioning any other way to look at the atonement.
My dilemma was that you and I forgive sins against ourselves, without alwasy requiring a sacrifice at all, let alone blood sacrifice. Usually we are satisfied with expressions of contrition. Why then does God's justice require a blood sacrifice? And how does Christ's death at all rectify the injuries inflicted on others by our own sin?
That was my dilemma, to which I found no answer in the evangelical church despite talking to several pastors and mature Chrisitan friends about it.
While on my sabbatical, I took a course on Christian Anthroplogy from Miguel Diaz (who is now the U.S. Ambassador to the Vatican). The first book we read was "The Christian Vision of Humanity" by John Sachs. It presented an overview of the Christian faith and worldview that was MUCH more appealing to me than what I had read in John Stott's book. The book by Sach's quoted heavily from Catholic theologian, Karl Rahner, and I remember in a fit of joy and frustration writing in the margins of this book "who is Karl Rahner and why have I never heard of him?" I was stunned that I had been a Christian for almost all my life and had never read such a beautiful expression of the human relationship to God.
I don't recall that this book directly satisfied all of my questions about the atonement. It's more that the beginning chapters were so beautiful that I was hooked without needing to fully understand the atonement.
continued in the next comment...
... continued from above
ReplyDeleteI also found Karl Rahner's apologetics more satisfying than any protestant literature I had read (and--sorry jh--more satisfying that Thomas Aquinas's proof). I didn't read his apologetic works ("Spirit in the World" and "Hearers of the Word") directly, but I loved the summaries of them that I read in books about Karl Rahner.
I also began to sense in Catholic theology a greater appreciation for other models of the atonement, and that even the substitutionary model had a slightly different nuance in Catholic circles.
In the course that I took, we read some summaries of the teachings of the early church leaders and it seemed like everyone of them expressed in one way or another the theme that in Christ, God became like us, so that we might become like him. I had never heard this before, and it put Christ's work and the atonement in a whole new perspective. For me, Christ's death became no longer merely a substitutionary sacrifice, but more of a fulfillment of his becoming "like us"--taking our humanity upon himself event to the point of experiencing the death that is common to us all, and somehow overcoming and transcending that death in his resurrection and opening up the way that makes that possible for us too.
This view of what Christ accomplished makes intuitive sense to me, in a way that John Stott's presentation of the gospel did not.
I'm not sure why it has taken 5 years since then for me to think seriously about becoming Catholic. I suppose it's that there are other aspects of the Catholic church that can seem legalistic to me. I knew that I liked the daily prayer routine and intellectual atmosphere at Benedictine monasteries, but I was not sure that Catholic parish life would hold the same appeal to me. I enjoyed the sense of reverence and periods for silent reflection in the Catholic mass, but to me the mass was not really any more meaningful than a morning or evening prayer service.
I suppose it was a conversation with jh this past summer that got me thinking more seriously about the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I think I started out thinking "It is what it is, and if the church teaches that Christ is really present, then I am willing to believe that". Then I think I moved to "I want to believe this; I hope this is true." In my RCIA class we read Justin Martyr's description of the mass and a separate quote from him that expressed the churches view that the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ. To learn that this view of the Eucharist was taught essentially from the very beginning of the church in a sense gave me the "permission" I somehow felt I needed to believe it.
As I contemplate this more and integrate the teaching of the real presence of Christ with my deeper understanding of the Gospel described above, the mass and the Eucharist seem much more meaningful to me now. There is a power in knowing that not only did Christ come long ago to become like us so that we might become like him. He also comes anew everyday. Everyday he is here to take my failures and ambivalance upon himself, and to transform my flawed (but good as I can manage) offering into his divine self. He comes to me and takes me unto himself.
I don't know if I can (or should try to) learn to sense this in a Protestant worship service, or whether it is something that really only flows from Catholic theology.
At the moment, my main hesitation about becoming Catholic is that I don't want to break communion with my friends in other churches. It breaks my heart that as a Catholic I would be expected to refrain from sharing communion with them.
Sally,
ReplyDeleteI had many reasons to smile in reading your comments. Let me note that I'm not here to push a specifically Lutheran perspective, although that is my tradition. I'm assuming that we're all Christians here, and that we're all seeking. We may do a bit better if we share the shiny bits we find, instead of hoarding :-).
In the course that I took, we read some summaries of the teachings of the early church leaders and it seemed like everyone of them expressed in one way or another the theme that in Christ, God became like us, so that we might become like him.
Indeed. It seems to me that the deep intellectual flaw in Anselmian substitutionary atonement theory is that it puts God in the position of having to jump hoops of his own making in order to effect a change he wants to make in himself. How does that make sense? Isn't God what he wills himself to be?! No, Jesus didn't have to die to change God. Jesus had to die to change us. It is our hearts that are hard, not God's. At least, that's how I see it.
As I contemplate this more and integrate the teaching of the real presence of Christ with my deeper understanding of the Gospel described above, the mass and the Eucharist seem much more meaningful to me now.
A generation ago, I was one of many who fought to reclaim the regular celebration of the Eucharist in Lutheran churches. It's a fight that I'm glad we won. I know so well the sense that you describe. Why has this been kept from us? Did our elders seriously believe that God's infinite love should be titrated?! It seemed that the answer was "yes." But God had a different "yes" in mind...
I don't know if I can (or should try to) learn to sense this in a Protestant worship service, or whether it is something that really only flows from Catholic theology.
I think you could, but I also think this is in a sense immaterial. God is where he finds you. If he found you in a Catholic parish, be glad!
At the moment, my main hesitation about becoming Catholic is that I don't want to break communion with my friends in other churches. It breaks my heart that as a Catholic I would be expected to refrain from sharing communion with them.
Hence the difficulty of being a bridge. But consider if you will jh's post here of August 26th. Your love of fellow Christians, and your desire for community with them, is nothing less than God's love working through you. Honor it as such, and don't let well meaning folks talk you out of God's call.
No, Jesus didn't have to die to change God. Jesus had to die to change us.
ReplyDeleteScuzi a bit of dissent from a bad catholic (Episcopalians by definition--tho. Pope Bene/RCC has said Ang./episc. might be Xtians too! for the time being)--I would disagree with Dr Stu here. One of the interesting features (and to me...rational) of trad.catholic theology may be precisely that point--per Christ's message the old testament dogma was no long binding (at least in the sense of "thou shalt") but..has been transfigured into Logos. A Edith Stein...becomes Saint Teresia Benedicta of the Cross (Latin itself a profound aspect of the tradition itself). Works and virtue count (as Augustine makes evident) but it's not merely obedience to law or blind faith. Alas, the Maritains..or Flannery O'Connor sorts of catholic people are in short supply IMO. Instead it's Tommy Lasorda and ChrisChristies.
thanks stu
ReplyDeleteoops, sorry
ReplyDeletethat thank you was from me (sally)
Interesting essay, S. Sry for interferring with one of my rants. Ive been around catholics for quite some time (including visits to St. Andrews in Valyermo a few times--was still a "priory" ) and met many catholics --and some padres--whom I respect.On the whole, if one had to rate churches I consider the catholics quite above the ordinary prot.-evangelicals (whether lutheran, episcopalian, or baptick sort, or jews). JP II seems to have been a noble man-- even saintly (and lets not forget his criticism of BushCo and GOP policies). And...cathedrals, catholic writers, etc. a plus. (Aquinas,not so sure).
ReplyDeleteAt the same time, there are ...troubling aspects, as with the sex abuse cases, and the problem of hypocritical catholics in positions of power--the US supreme court for one. So, while tempted to...partake in the Mass ritual (did so a years ago, along with the episco.church--which has its own issues now--Im not a zealot but oppose the same-sex clergy actually)....I respectfully return the ticket until real reforms go down. (scuzi jh).
correctio: interfering
ReplyDeleteSpell check for the peoples!
Anyway, just as ...a street smarts thing, Im not entirely sure I would recommend the SoCal Iglesia .
thanks J
ReplyDeletei'm not looking for a perfect church
just one where i can grow
in the company of others
the presbyterian service
was quite nice yesterday
it was the first sunday of the month
so we had communion
daily mass this morning
at the catholic church
also felt good
i tend to look for the good in things
and often ignore the rest
i understand your critique though
i don't know if there is an easy resolution
ReplyDeleteto your perceived dilemma sally
and i am hesitant to suggest
that merely by your example you provide
a precedent
maybe the good in what you're doing
at this time on your pilgrim way
is best understood in terms of courage
to say
all of my experience in faith and life comes with me is not unreasonable at all
and must be recognized in catholic formation
a deepening of your understanding of eucharist
may ease the tension some
i don't know
i find it all very interesting
that's all i know
jh
as i near the end of A SECULAR AGE i find charles taylor begging the question of the importance of unity in creed and purpose and he looks around to all the levels and rings of community which mark peoples' lives these days
ReplyDeleteit seems we've altered the meaning of community to a degree preferring to think of things more in terms of sets (in set theory) where likeness is the bottom line...similarity of style appearance politics orientation preference etc.
whereas the traditional sense of community was a body of people with considerable difference who were bound together with the agreement of faith or if not that at least the agreement of safety of security in one place
i guess he posits quite strongly the understanding that "catholic" carries with it the notion that the truths abided by therein are those which can and must apply universally
this then allows for stylistic and ethnic particularity while grounded upon the doctrines
and these days the doctrines are much more vulnerable to questioning even while the styles seem to be turning once again to a unifromity
it's all so strange sometimes
maybe any community is
the people we eat with pray with sing with
work with
all the rest is the family of humanity
at rcia class today
ReplyDeletefor the first time
the catechist asked us each
about our journeys
how we were doing
and if we had questions
coming up on dec 4
is the rite of acceptance
where those of us who choose to
will stand before the congregation
declaring our desire
to move forward
from inquirer to catechumen
i asked her
how do i know
whether or not i am ready
to take that step?
i mentioned my hesitation
to leave my presbyterian community behind
gordon
who reminds me of my grandfather and
whose face brightens
when i give him a hug each week
and just last week
a set of challenge dinners
hosted by leaders in the church
presenting the rather dire
financial situation of our church
a death
a family who moved
closure of the preschool
have led to a $15,000 deficit
in the church's budget for the past 2 years
which has eaten up what little cushion of savings
the church had
i don't see how i could
discontinue or even decrease my tithe
to this congregation at this time
if anything
i need to think about increasing it
gia, the catechist
seemed respectful of all this
and confident that God is working
in my journey no matter where
it ends up leading
i learned that the rite of acceptance
is not a point of no return
but is merely a statement
of yes, i want to keep moving
in this direction
it is possible to remain a catechumen
for more than a year
postponing full initiation into the church
until one is ready
and it is also possible
to be initiated
without having gone through
the rite of acceptance
so whether i go through
the rite of acceptance on dec 4 or not
i could still be confirmed
at easter vigil 2013 either way
or i could postpone confirmation either way
at the moment
i feel almost like
a bemused observer
waiting to see
what God will do in my life
i feel comfortable for now
laying aside my concerns
about communion
and just waiting to see
how God will work it all out
to say
ReplyDeleteall of my experience in faith and life comes with me is not unreasonable at all
and must be recognized in catholic formation
i did indeed sense that gia recognized this
thanks for your words jh
and i do ask the community
of communitas dies
for their prayers