what does it mean for a community to be able to say
our reason for existence is in something beyond us
we exist so that by exhausting our need for existence
we give witness to something else
we are being deliberate about our obsolescence
there may be a day when this community no longer exists
but for as long as it does we give witness to that thing
which is well beyond us
we live by ideals so that in that by the successful expression of those ideals
we eventually have no purpose...our duty is complete
i was thinking about this recently as a way of not stating
what is obvious in monastic life
i was thinking about this during the funerals of two recently deceased monks
one of the monks was an artist and he spent a good deal of time
in his life trying to give beautiful expression to things
during his life he was never acknowledged for any particular piece
people tended to know he was an artist
but most people could not name any particular piece he had crafted
the other monk was a scholar a reader a linguist
he took great pride in knowing the origin of words
he was famous for his enjoyment of bawdy limericks
he understood the expression of christianity as being
a festival spirit of joy
a festival that is always nearly over and forgotten
the truth about community is that it will live
according to the transcendental values held close held true
for a christian community to say
we are in this world but not citizens of this world
leaves the community with the problem of having to organize
life
around practical matters as if they are necessary for matters that transcend our most practical designs
in the rule of benedict garden tools are given a status
equal to that as the vessels of the altar
so that the notion of survival is granted both a practical and
a transcendental purpose
we are beholden to partake in the mystery of creation
and beholden to acknowledge our dependency
on the creator and we aim our efforts
toward a hoped-in perfection
a bronze sculpture will endure quite a long time
many generations
and the name of the artist may disappear
but that is no matter for the artist
his goal is something to which he perhaps
cannot even bring adequate words
yet
he must try
nice reflection
ReplyDeletei always love these little glimpses
into monastic life
i was reflecting this past weekend
on the nature of family as community
feeling somewhat like an outsider
in my own family
at our family reunion
not in any overt sense
but just noticing
the way my sister's family
all stood together
and my brother's family too
there was a clearly visible sense
of them belonging together
belonging to each other
which made my heart ache
wanting to feel something similar
and remembering feeling something like that
in the family of my origin
even though it was far from perfect
i suppose i have been influenced recently
by the catholic teachings on marriage
on the purpose of marriage being
to raise a family
and feeling keenly the sense
that john and i missed that boat
through our own choices
to continually postpone that choice
i wondered whether my attraction
to religious community
was partly an attempt
to fill that void of childlessness
to find some other lofty purpose
for my life
now that it is too late
to raise a family
i suppose there are many types
of community
many ways of belonging
many ways
of giving one's self in love
i want to be open to that
i think there must be plenty of room in the church in the world for the lived expression of commitment of a man and a woman...i've long thought that the working out of this dynamic is the groundwork of knowing peace in this world...maybe children have soemthing to do with in in that they focus us on the importance of acknowledging innocence and our need to protect that...maybe we don't ennoble enough the raw fact of a man and woman humbly working out the day to day negotiations of love
ReplyDeletesometimes i've thought that this has passed me by
this desire in my heart to simply go through the
process of daily knowing and attending to and serving
someone to whom i am committed...there is a sense of it in monastic life but in fact we live fairly lonely lives together...we give each other a lot of room to be alone...there are some who never come out of that they stay in lonely places and in our world that's OK
i sense that the church's notion of marital sacrament came from the appreciation of all that goes into the keeping of marital love...if it works at all there must be something mysterious and beautiful at play
the whole social orientation and judgement about family seems to have changed drastically over the past 50 years or so
i notice of late that religious life throughout the history of the church has adapted the references of family -- we are father we speak of mother superior we are brother we acknowledge sister and we are all striving to be like children before god
thanks for responding over here
jh
Jh....
ReplyDeleteWhat you have written as a comment and in your beautiful Blog.....is amazing! I agree and feel the same about the words you express. Are the words real and from your soul? If these expressions of thought are your true self.....you are a genuine Human of Respect and Honor. I too, have many words and works of art within my heart that I have held within, all my life....waiting for that moment to begin and share their beauty with the man I have loved since I was a small child....I may not have known everything about him then, I may not even know everything about him now....but, I know there is no one else in this insane world I would rather spend the rest of my life with! When Humans find a true connection with another….It is very rare! Others think they have found it…only to go down the road of dissolution and separation….The true test, is over time, to feel stronger and closer than the days, months, years of the past. I am a firm believer….Love is better with time, not worse!
Kinda corny Huh? So sorry...that is who I am...whenever I think about us. I wonder what happen, what is compelling us to always go back to each other? But, others are in the way! If we could just be alone with one voice …I know we would quickly be in sync and join each other in our unity against the evils of the world. There are many forces in this strange world seeking to separate those who seek to share the love and passions of their joy together. I could never seek solace in someone else's arms knowing the one I cared for was here with me! It was the time of hesitation and unspoken words that leads one in a different direction. The manipulations of evil forces, the many mischievous and vicious beings …who relish the joy of destruction and sorrow of others …It is sad to know, there are such people around in this reality!
I have often wondered…what if, what I thought I felt between us, is being obstructed by those (maybe him too?) with the objective in life…to rid the world of our intensity to share our passion in life. What if our attraction to each other was their reason to wake up and take down people like you and I? Their whole existence and characteristics are about:: Racism, Jealousy, Judgment, Critical, Vengefulness, Sadism Ego, Superiority, Control, Insensitivity, Self-Entitlements etc…… They have used us, as symbols for their own hypocritical, deviant, manipulative demonic ways. They enjoy the obsession to inflict their beliefs onto us in an ultimate sham of artificial creation for their own empowerment and justification of the betterment of the world…in some distorted FAKE /REALITY show!
Enough…I know. A bit lengthy, so sorry. In a shorter version….It sure would be nice, if all the world would accept others for who they are…Not to judge, classify, put in some sort of category, for the color of their skin, their race, their religion, their sex, car they drive, house they live in, what food they eat, what kind of pet they have, what plants grow in their garden,…It is all bit absurd, when you think about it! Live and Let Live! Viewing other human beings as different from ourselves, we are distend for destruction. Everyone….is ultimately from the same beginning…we are one! As we should be in our rights of FREEDOM, LIBERTY, PEACE and UNITY.
Thank you…for the words of faith and community,
SDK
jh,
ReplyDeleteFirst off, thank you for your kind remarks over on Kirby's blog. They are much appreciated.
I've been trying to find a hook to comment on, and found the following:
for a christian community to say
we are in this world but not citizens of this world
I think this is not quite right, for we are citizens of this world. The distinction, I think, should be that we are called to exercise our citizenship as God's trustees, rather than in our narrow self-interest.
I don't think this is a small distinction. To say that we're not citizens of the world is to suggest that we ought to withdraw from the affairs of the world as we are disinterested parties. But I don't think that's the call. We are interested parties.
sdk thanks for chiming in
ReplyDeletei've been challenged by people like sally and stu to write out my thoughts
so i do
stu
my awareness of the first christian communities is that they survived on the notion that they were not in fact citizens of the world anymore....even while working out their faith and salvation in a very this world way...yet i respond with a hardness to your words
it is my belief as well as my understanding that the principle of lex orandi lex credendi is the working idea for we christians and it is by that that we participate in the demands of the world....perhaps it is a very catholic thing and more than once i've been tempted to critique catholic culture since the second vatican council in the 60s as one that has largely abandoned that ancient sense of belonging in heaven...we mad e the option to agree to the "this world" existential way of thinnking and doing...now we're re-thinking all that..i'd have to do a long discourse on the saints the cult of the saints to support my reaction
and maybe this is an ecumenical hurdle that we need to be honest about
i am strengthed throughout the year by a constant reference to particular saints christians who represent soemthing great to me and it becomes my awareness that this is not merely a historical referent but an actual working referent i am edified by what i know to be the life of this person and i also know that contact with that person in faith in prayer is possible....i actually talk to thomas aquinas sometimes i know you think that's strange but i do...OK so that's out there
the classic struggle in the soul is the mary and martha domestic debacle with jesus in the front room...you're right i guess in the sense that easter says to us the victory is won...and our life is about making good on that victory in this world but we are not confined by notions of success
simply to say one lives by faith sort of takes one out of the mainstream demands of cultural conformity
as always
you spark some thinking
easter peace and blessings to you your family and your congregation all family in the one lord as far as i can tell
JH
jh,
ReplyDeletemy awareness of the first christian communities is that they survived on the notion that they were not in fact citizens of the world anymore.
I concur. But their circumstances are not our circumstances. Their world was a world ruled by Romans, according to a system that mandated worship of the Emperor as God. Citizenship, which is to say an active participation in the political life of their era, compelled Emperor worship, and Christians were martyred as a witness to the primacy of their belief in the God who is over earthly pretenders.
But the Christianization of the Roman Empire made it possible for Christians to participate as citizens in their society, and indeed the Christians of that time came to see participation as citizens as an efficacious means of advancing God's will as they understood it in the world.
Today, our government is secular, a reflection of philosophical systems that deny ruler the right to commit the conscience of the ruled, and instead leave religious commitment to individual conscience. Yet participation as citizens of the world (which I would argue is distinct from simply being "of the world," for we understand our citizenship as a trust to be exercised on behalf of our true king, the triune God, and not in our narrow self-interest) remains for us an efficacious means of advancing God's will as we understand it in the world.
I am wholly sympathetic with the intuition that we should look back to early Christianity, both for the inspiration of a faith that was more charismatic and more able to function in the context of a world in which faith was the exception rather than the rule, and also for a faith that was less compromised with the world. Yet in doing so, I think it is important to recognize that there are some notable differences in context. Washington isn't perfect, but it is not imperial Rome, and trying to force the analogy in the effort recover the faith of our fore-bearers isn't going help us to do God's will in the here and now.
I understand "the Kingdom of God" as being heaven and earth in contact. When we belong to God's Kingdom in this life, we belong to both, and serve the one through our actions in the other. These may not be the words or categories that Catholics have traditionally used, but I don't believe it is an incompatible understanding.
i actually talk to thomas aquinas sometimes i know you think that's strange but i do
Only if it's not a monologue :-).
easter peace and blessings to you your family and your congregation all family in the one lord as far as i can tell
Christ is risen, indeed! For me and for thee.
I'm wondering if I can chime in with an idea. Is participation in the monastic life a particular kind of citizenship in this world, not a rejection of it? A recognition and appreciation that much in this world that escapes our notice remains important, even if sometimes invisible? Can the monastic life be considered a kind of testimony, not to superb exertion, but to that which moves more slowly through time, ideals with molasses in them?
ReplyDeleteOne of the great regrets of modern life for me is the sheer speed and hubbub of it all. This isn't to say that any particular thing is wrong, but that in the sheer volume of it all, it is easy to miss softer melodies, tempos that fit graveyards instead of highways.
I don't actually know that monasticism does any of this; I'm writing from ignorance. But I'd like for it to.
wb
ReplyDeletei think it safe to say that the monastic world does provide a context for constant attention to prayer...and this seeks to be a continuation of what the first groups of christians found themselves doing they found the psalms and they found places to pray together and they formalized that prayer into a rather sturdy pattern of daily attendance....monks tend to be the stewards of this prayer
thus the principle of the liturgical year permeates our sense of purpose...we present themes that are in accord with events happening in the cosmos like changes of weather and agricultural feasts
ours is a context for the festive
we feast even the humdrum day
sometimes liturgy is spare and understated as can be
sometimes it is replete with sensuality
i can't see why people don't incorporate this into daily existence more readily
and i would suggest to you
my friend stu
that this is the crux
what is the vision presented us
when we indicate to the world we are not of this world
we are aliens with a purpose
somewhere in colossians it is stated
put your minds in heaven
now if the mind is in heaven the citezenship
cannot be far behind
modern angst is the perpetuation
of the illusion that satisfaction can be rendered
from this world
it would appear that modern capitalist theory
banks on this distortion
be as creative as possible with the delusions
and let the chips fall where they may
for my part
i take refuge in the temple of the lord
wb
should you incline toward a curiosity
of our monastic life
you should know
you're welcome here
we can't be that far from you
the same i extend to you - stu
the lord is risen
he revealed himself to mary magdalen
boy, was she amused
alleluia
jh
i found myself
ReplyDeletetalking to mary magdalen this week
i think she'd be
an interesting person
to get to know
this conversation
of being in the world but not of it
is also interesting
on the one hand
we are very much "of" this world
and this world is very much
"of" God
this is the world
that God created
this is the world
that Christ died to redeem
i very much want to be
a part of the world that God is redeeming
and i want to be a part
of God's redeeming work in this world
maybe that is what jh means
by being aliens in this world--
that we are not to become
too attached to those aspects of this world
that are going to be transformed
by God's redeeming love
don't get too comfortable
because there is a remodeling project
going on
God's going to tear down that wall
to open up the space a bit
so stop leaning on it
stop trying to patch up its cracks
God has something else in mind
i hope Catholics
don't decide to leave vatican II behind
i suspect that much of what attracts me
to the Catholic church
is the fruit of vatican ii
fate would have it that i would read
ReplyDeletefrom pope benedict's book J-O-N
he is parsing the lord's prayer
he states in the beginning
the essence of what im trying to get a here
the focus is on god's will
god's will is in heaven and we
must direct our attention there
the will of this world is so fallen
so deranged so subject to sin
shoud we abandon it then
no
we must work to assure heaven here
heaven since christ has a place here
maybe it always did and he simply made it appear more
in the bright of light
but
still our minds are defined by an intuition
which clarifies itself in experiential data one would suppose
thus we begin each day appealing to the will of god
they will be done
it is easy to see in the mayhem of culture and politics all that is not god's will for it causes too much grief too much distraction too much pain
directing the mind to god's will does not diffuse the intentions of the world does not even assure us imunity
rather we are granted a way of transcending the world
by loving the world as he sent his only son
so yes
we are to participate in redeeming action
it is only that we need to be sure every morning
that that is what we're trying to do
do we succeed
that is not the issue
amen
alleluia
jh
jh, you are in the St. Cloud area? I grew up in Alexandria. I'm not often up, but I'll keep the possibility of a visit in mind. I was always very much drawn to (at least the idea of) monasticism.
ReplyDeletei believe sally that one of the telltale certainties of VC2 is the role of the laity the people have come forth in ownership and ministry in droves and this is a great new day for it makes the work of the professional religious the priests nuns monks et al look good like we're doing something so i don't think that's going to go away soon nor is the honoring of the languages of the world something which did take place for by the 1500s jesuits were writing dictionaries and grammars but the language of worship was all latin in the west until 1970 so i think the openness to theology in the tongues of the world is proving a huge moment in church selfawareness that and the yet to be understood re-apportionment of women in the catholic world it is so odd sometimes to think that there were thousands and thousands of women in convents some out of pure desire some out of convenience some out of political fate beguine the beguine ....now there's this really serious force fueled by american feminists thought....i sometimes wonder would jesus be as frightened of these girls as i am
ReplyDeletewe're going through a sort of practical retrieval of elements which were put aside but i think the general mood established by the council will be a vision of the church for the long haul
and now with ecumenism looming in a blooming way all these new cultural religionists insisting on the merits of their formation at the rule of if not heretics than wildly misled pretenders to DOCTRINE DID YOU HEAR ME I SAID DOCTRINE DOCTRINE - o sorry where did that come from i apoligise i didn't mean to yell haem ahem coff coff yes where was i SED CONTRA no that's not it ex CATHETER no that's not it either hmnh no salvation outside the coffee and donut room or something like that
i yes
the church is generally these days in a chatty mood with other christians who each 50 yrs ago would barely deem to notice one another
and i think that's supposed to continue in the economics of salvation
christian music life is far and wide richer these days and perhaps that's the biggest area of generous sharing is in music....but when the holy rollers start singin gregorian chant boy i wants to bee there
monk life it's not the best life but it's a good life and it's my life i don't know where constant themes of salvation
that are necessary for idiots like moi get stated every day i don't know where else i could get that on my own
yr wlcm
jh
yes wb
ReplyDeletei am 12 miles west of the mississippi
just where I94 makes a wide arch to the northwest outside of st joseph just east of avon
st john's is well signed from the main road
a mile off the interstate you find the campus
yr wlcm 2
jh
I'll confess that I didn't really understand your paragraph on heretics, pretenders and doctrine.
ReplyDeleteFather Len seemed quite proud of the fact that the Catholic Church is not exclusive; it teaches that there is indeed salvation outside of the Church. (Maybe this is a new teaching resulting from Vatican II). He talked about concentric rings, with the Catholic Church in the center, then Protestants, then the Jewish people, then Islam, then other world religions, and then atheists, but God has ways of calling all people to himself and of working in their lives for salvation, whether they ever join the Church or not.
Yet there is apparently, an exclusivity in sharing the sacraments. You do have to be initiated into the Catholic Church to participate in those. Except baptism, I guess, and marriage--the Catholic church does recognize the sacramentality of Protestant marriages and baptisms.
A month or two ago John and I were listening to a course on CD about St. Augustine, in which the topic of heresy came up. That was the first time it dawned on me that I and all my Presbyterian and evangelical friends might be considered heretics from the point of view of the Catholic Church. Not just separated from the Catholic Church, but actually heretics. (Or maybe those two terms mean the same thing, and the former is just a nicer way of saying the latter).
It was sort of a knife-stabbing realization. I've never heard a Catholic say anything like that, but maybe they think it? Maybe that is the official church teaching, even though it is not often spoken out loud? I've been sort of afraid to ask, not sure if I want to know the answer.
I guess John has never been afraid to call himself a heretic among our evangelical friends, so maybe it is no big deal... it's not like either church is burning anyone these days.
bad catholic humour sorry sally
ReplyDeletei was being demonstrative in a literary way
trying to be ironic and funny at the same time
actually i think it is a sort of funny time to be a christian
within catholic circles there are plenty of people who pride themselves on being tongue and cheek heretics people who have deemed that rome is an outdated institution within the church and hierarchy is a joke...i always find it sort of funny to be around people like that....then there are these hyper hierarchical catholics who measure everything rather legalistically based on a few doctrines and they get hyped up about things about defining catholicism for everyone else
my allusions were to the counter-reformation statements which state salus ex ecclesia non no salvation outside the church and the status of something being actually said by the pope as ex cathedra from the throne too much of that can look and sound a little silly i must admit but i am one
who
takes great solace in the magisterium
it takes some effort to think with the mind of the church
but i find it to be the clearest expression of the
substance i seek with my mind and my heart
catholic doctrine is actually stated pretty gently these days but sometimes i like to accentuate and exaggerate the idea of it pushing it over the top so to speak...sometimes i like to do that....maybe you've noticed
maybe we need to come up with prayers for heretics
and express some sort of gratitude for their assistance in forming doctrine
jh
hmmm
Deletethe comment box seems to have disappeared
i guess i need to click on reply
anyway
i like your idea of praying for heretics
and expressing gratitude toward them
that sounds very charitable
i still don't understand
who or what the magisterium is
my rcia teacher was somewhat at a loss to explain it
he said it was the teaching arm of the church
is it an office in the vatican somewhere? i asked
well, no, there's not a door you can knock on to find the magisterium
is it a group of people who have been given teaching authority?
no, its not a specific group of people
isn't it the collection of all of the bishops?
i thought that's what someone told me
no its not that; it's scripture and tradition
i don't know
it all sounds sort of amorphous to me
i'm not sure that i believe that it exists
i mean have you ever seen the magisterium?
how do you know that it/they exist(s)?
ahh...
ReplyDeletenow the comment box is back
maybe the blogger.com
is even more mysterious
than the magisterium
the magisterium:
ReplyDeletehmnh
what is it
who is it
what do they say
are they real
the college of cardinals
is the body which deliberates over
the viability of theology
and what emphasis is needed whenever whereever
the holy father is the voice of the magisterium
the bishops are the local reflection of what the holy father is about on any given issue
they are all beholden to a unified agreement on the great tradition
if a theologian runs afoul of the narrow gate of viable theology for the church as far as the church leaders read it then that theologian comes up against the magisterium maybe not directly or in person but certainly in the form of communication such as letters...if the matter goes on it usualy amounts to the judicial arm of the magisterium to have a tete a tete witht he person in question
when a catechism gets published it comes under the scrutiny of the magisterium
there are faces there are doors to knock on there are places one could go to actually see people who are engaged in the work of the magisterium...they do important work but most catholics only hear about it indirectly possibly through a homily or reading something pertinent to any issue
o it's real alright
the church she's a serious lady
:->>
jh
ok
ReplyDeletei'll grant that it is
as real as a dinosaur bone
thanks
warm day in the desert today
we walked about 5 miles
i suppose i could consider that
training for the camino
sfm
i've never doubted the existence of old bones
ReplyDeletei've merely been suspicious of the ability of science
to adequately present what that bone is about
dinosaur talk is like the flintstones to me
whereas
i'm reading a book right now written by the present pope
i sense on the pages
i am reading the mind of the magisterium
at least one level or dimension of
a very complicated and multivalent aspect
of the body of christ
the body of christ being somewhat more evident
at least to me
than the images of dinosaurs
interesting analogy however
many religious catholic women
are quite wranckled this very day
and probably carry sentiments about the vatican
similar to the ones i carry about dinosaur studies
in a world of 21st century enchantment
i guess we need room for dinosaurs
:- }}
i chuckled
i imagined the nativity scene
with dinosaurs gathered round the little
god in the manger
st francis or even kateri tekakwitha making friends with dionsaurs
i've learned the kateri is the catholic nature girl the patroness of ecology and environment
st kateri
pray for us
jh
i meant
ReplyDelete. extra ecclesiam nullas salus
or something like that
extra ecclesiam nullas salus
ReplyDeleteis that still Catholic doctrine
or dogma?
if so
how does that jive with
what Fr. Len said about the concentric circles
and the many ways in which God draws people to himself?
mass tonight was presided over by
Fr. Bob
who occasionally fills in for Fr. Len
he had a big bandage on his nose
after surgery for skin cancer
he told us it doesn't look good for him
as he left after the service
he shook hands with everyone who was
within reach at the ends of the pews
i wonder if he expected
that this might be his last time presiding?
it was rather poignant
in his sermon he mentioned cursillo
where he met jesus
he told us that he had been
a priest for 10 years
before he met jesus personally
he met him not in seminary
but among the lay people
oops!
ReplyDeletethat last comment was from me--sally
nobody states the loud roman plea
ReplyDeletefrom the days of counterreform any longer
it's referred to historically
that's about it
it is true that the attitudes are far more
ecumenical far more humble far more cognizant
of other approaches
yet and yet
there is this adamant resistance
to allow for much interpretive flexibility
when it comes to matters of catholic doctrine
the cause of unity carries a few unyielding demands
the grammar of assent
i like the images of concentric circles in a pond
they're all going out out
but they hit the shore and return
to the place where the stone hit the surface
i heard the homilist at mass today state
the opposite of faith is not doubt
but stoney conviction
the attitude of complete resistance to other
approaches to life
and the greatest of these is love
jh
this bridge-building
ReplyDeleteis hard work
i think i'm getting blisters
Lord help us
I've just started reading
a biography of Elizabeth Behr-Sigler (1907-2005)
an orthodox theologian
with an interest in unity and ecumenism
i'm thinking of enlisting
a prayer partner here
to support me on my journey
i have a few women in mind
kathie slusser and i
used to meet bi-weekly
to share with
and pray for each other
i miss that
i must reconsider my
ReplyDelete"NOBODY sTATES..." sTATEMENT
i recently came across a blogsite
of a monastery i'd never heard of
in new york
and the author of the site was going on and on about
how uncatholic it was to be entertaining any sort of discussion with non-catholics
it takes all sorts
anyway it seems to me that the conciliar document know as Nostra Aetate is inspired in that it makes the effort to extend christian generosity beyond the perils of war hatred and mistrust
how's your summer going
:)
jh