This morning I read the following tribute to St. Thecla in a Catholic daily devotional. Normally it probably would have had only minor impact on me, but after the recent discussions over on de gustibus, this took me by surprise. I find it encouraging and marvelous that the Catholic church while withholding the priesthood from women, nonetheless honors as saint a woman who saw herself as commissioned by Christ to baptize and preach in his name.
"St. Thecla is one of many saintly virgins of the early Church whose witness, though steeped in legend, has exerted a powerful influence in Christian history. Her story is preserved in The Acts of Paul and Thecla, a second-century text that was warmly celebrated by many Church Fathers, including Augustine and Ambrose.
"According to her Acts, Thecla was a beautiful young woman whose life was transformed when she heard St. Paul preaching in the street outside her window and was 'subdued by the doctrines of the faith.' Under this influence, she announced her intention to break off her engagement and to embrace a life of chastity. Her family, scandalized by her behavior, denounced her to the governor and caused her arrest. Sentenced to death, she twice found miraculous deliverance from her fate and went on to enjoy a long life.
"Seeking out Paul, she revealed that she had been commissioned by Christ to baptize and preach in his name. According to the story, Paul recognized her as a fellow apostle and authorized her to spread the Gospel. Wherever she went, 'a bright cloud conducted her in her journey.'
"Eventually Thecla retired to a cave and later formed a monastic community of women, whose members she instructed 'in the oracles of God' Her feast is celebrated on September 23."
i read that thecla even impressed
ReplyDeletethe female beasts sent to destroy her
so much that the females sided with her and growled the scurrilous curs into submission
and fear and the maledogs scampered away tails between their legs
i suspect ( i think it could be documented)that a good deal of the positive energy in building the early church came from women who had been "freed" from the confining traps of culture and translated their joy into loving service of others in need and that was the grounding of church
st thecla
help us to be free
!
why more people are not
ReplyDeleteinterested in thecla
i just do not know
you'd think she'd provoke some sort of curiosity at least
like shooting rockets out into space
how big can it be
jh
jh writes,
ReplyDeletewhy more people are not
interested in thecla
I think it boils down to sparsity and quality of documentation. One of my books, in referring to the large number of non-canonical second century gospels noted, "There was a lot of trash written in the second century. It's still trash." Unfortunately, the Gospel of Paul and Thecla seems to fit into this sad collection.
Of course, I find the Thecla story as Sally tells it to be compelling, and one that fits in well with my belief that the traditional gender roles that many contemporary churches (including the RCC) enforce today have everything to do with accommodations to secular Rome, and nothing to do with Christ or with God's will for us. [I know jh differs -- I'm not trying to bait him, just to state why someone like me might be drawn to the story.]
But as useful as this story would be to me in arguing with jh, I can't get behind it in a strong way. The Paul of "Paul and Thecla" is not the Paul of Acts, or the Paul of the Pauline Epistles. And if "Paul and Thecla" doesn't describe the historical Paul, it seems like quite a leap to grant it authority about an historical Thecla. But if we dismiss "Paul and Thecla," what remains?
There is a stylistic difference here between Catholicism and Lutheranism. Catholics like stories that are big and messy and full of faith. Lutherans are more circumspect -- we like our stories too, but we like them to cohere.
it appears i am unable to
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woe is me
o fancy that
ReplyDeletei was going to try being anonymous
but it appears i'm being
tentatively permitted some access here
i can't seem to comment with my
google account however
i'm more than willing to accept this as an imperfect medium
what would thecla do
regardless of the veracity
ReplyDeleteof the Acts of Paul & Thecla
(which I have not read
and would likely find
incredulous if i did)
what appealed to me about the summary
of her story that i quoted above
was that Augustine and Ambrose
apparently found nothing amiss
with the concept of a woman
preaching and baptizing
and considering herself an apostle
and the fact that the Catholic church
considers her a saint
instead of an uppity power grabber
who didn't know her place
is encouraging to me
granted she didn't claim
to be a eucharistic celebrant
(that i know of)
maybe that would have been
crossing the line
it is so very interesting to consider what was going through the minds of the first few generations of believers in the way what driving force inspired them to circle around a given revelation and center themselves in a drama of cultivating the reality of this revelation...it took some odd men to stand around and dream up the ritual that would or should go with all that ...quite a few women of noble families round the mediterranean had learned to read and write this is evidence from writings of jerome and the sisters of basil and gregory macrina the elder and the younger and a host of others
ReplyDeletei think the divisions of labour were practical infinitely practical who could do what in this amount of time what was essential i suspect women organized kitchens and refuge sites without even being commanded it was so natural for them and the men sat around and dreamed up means by which this new power could be defined and presented in the public realm...i doubt thecla is a unique voice (i mean her spirit is certainly unique) but that there were plenty of women proclaiming the gospel perhaps more by deed than by word should come as no surprise to anyone...but that some stood and spoke with eloquence and insight suggests a love of something something greater than jonah
that women began to love jesus with the expressions they might only reserve to lovers is a real cultural disturbance no matter what anyone says
jh
Interesting tale--supposedly was taken seriously by the early Church fathers, even if "apocryphal" as y'all say. Thecla was a model Christian virtue, and virginity. Yet...maybe there was another reason for the tale. St. Paul for one was considered a bit...odd was he not? 3-dollar bill as it goes. Was Thecla like perhaps his..beloved?? A spouse in a sense (spiritually speaking..tho perhaps to be wedded, even like ..traditionally)?? So the story hitched Paul up to Thecla, thereby providing a ..hushhush concerning any rumors about Paul's... eccentricities.
ReplyDeletei'm sure st paul was as chaste as chaste can be throughuot his whole ministry there was never a moments doubt pual's so was so linked to god's as to be unflappable in eh face of any temptation no it all just got cold all that temptation stuff it just gets cold frozen and forgotten there's no recourse to anything remotely connected to physical passion any,longer it's all over but the cryin o maybe a tear here or there but for real no it's the real thing perfect chastity -- it takes a little loer than drugs but the end result is far more preferrable try it you'll like it
ReplyDeletehush hush concerning any rumours
of all the insidious suggestions
i'm blushing with embarassment and anger
at the mere hint of
well
what's the use
benighted lord they'll always be
jh
it takes a little longer
ReplyDeletethat's it
endurance is the key
perseverance
yeah like heavenly liquer
jh
A bit of jocularity , scuzi (Hola S.)
ReplyDeletethe catholic encyclopedia seems to accept the Thecla story as genuine. That said, I do agree with Stu--slightly--insofar that the RCC does at times seem a bit..whats the word--credulous regarding miraculous stories and so forth. Edward Gibbon's views of the early church offer a slightly different view (not the final word and a bit philistinish (not to say scottish) but should be considered perhaps
what is edward gibbons' view of the early church
ReplyDeleteI think he's a bit of skeptic alas (probably from reading all those roman historians, Tacitus etc), yet...not quite a Hume. Haven't memorized DAFOTRE, but he does grant Christianity did some good , even if he questions the superstitious/miraculous aspects. In brief.
ReplyDeletei would've thought that thecla would have attracted all kinds of attention i mean she stands out there amongst the saints she stands out there as a powerwoman with a sword and justice in her grin and she too wants to fight the good fight just look at her grin
ReplyDeletei've heard it said and i don't pronounce this as having anything other than a passing capricious relation to authority i merely state that it has been said that when the church has come unravelled it has been the good conscienteous charitable patient christ lovers sort of women who have brought the church around
but this has always meant a more ardent connection to the tradition and not an occasion for radical social development...the women have always found ingenious ways to incorporate christ into the matrix and rarely has that meant merely the most popular political views...i'm holding out for the truly christinspired women adn not the selfrighteous womanist arrogance i see so often---that stuff frightens me----yikes
jh
st elizabeth anscombe
you and st. thecla get together today
and help us intercede for us
i say this as a plea and not a command