i entered into a rather risque act this summer
i stepped over a line of consciousness
i entered into communion
with non-catholic people
(unless of course we abide by the principle
that in fact we are all bad catholics)
it appears like rather a minor act
commited almost undeliberately
maybe i could use the excuse that
i hadn't slept all that well the night before
that in a moment of comme si comme sa
i merely went along with the crowd
and no one was any the worse for it
it was an innocent transgression of love
except for the fact that i in a different mood
i may have been more circumspect
more reserved
yet i held out my hand
and i recieved the bread and
the little cup of juice
in a presbyterian church
where i was the only dyed in the wool catholic
it was a first time thing
it was fostered out of curiosity and
like all efforts at love
out of at least a little trepidation
but i am just a poor wayfarin' stranger
what right do i have to expect designs
on the bread and wine offered me
who am i to presume that the grace i seek
can't be granted in ritual to which i was
a little strange
life was not altered egregiously or even noticeably for that matter life was not left in some abject state of need or readjustment by the afternoon everyone had more or less forgotten that a catholic man who lives his life in monastic order and decorum decided for a moment to step out of the box and receive his lord in a context somewhat unfamiliar
like degrees of faith was no object
for indeed who could ever measure
do i know the grace that came my way
in my willingness to let my guard down
to be carressed in love in a different way
than what i am used to on a daily basis
i was willing to hear the tune in a different way
i never thought to ask forgiveness
for i never thought to confess that anything wrong had occured
for i never thought for myself anything but good will
and generous intention for union were at stake
union in the imperfect liturgy all christians share each day
community is held by communion
holy communion
give thanks to the lord for the lord is good
his mercy is everlasting
bread for the journey
broken and shared
a pilgrim must not refuse
now off to the communion i know
like i know the sheets on my bed
Sunday school
ReplyDeleteas a kid the sour grape juice
was nearly as bad as the hymns, and
the pastor with the plastick grin.
The rare times ...
at Mass the sugary wine
seemed a bit superior
and hairshirted mysteries as well!
el sangre de Christo--
tho'...confessio...eh.
occasionally bingo
with nice cat. ladies
who cooked a tasty spread.
Novena ghost phunn.
The vino episcopalia
tastier than the RCC's IMHE.
At times served up by some
ritzy LA dame, all in white.
Que es devocion, hermano!
And musick a little better
some Bach rockk
with the right
imp at the organ.
Pero... yo no se gusta Calvin,
mormonos o chistosos evangelicos
vaquero
ReplyDeletecaballero
you seem to approach these matters aesthetically and politically
i am searching around the areas of doctrine and practice in order to see where we stand united and where things are decidedly and unmovably different
somehow it centers around the notion of
the "real presence" which became an intense mode of preservation in doctrine surrounding the practice of eucharist
as a way of critiqueing a pattern that limited the ritual to merely symbolic
flannery o'connor once stated
"if it's only a symbol i can't be bothered"
(para.)
confessio:
ReplyDeleteThe lady preachers
are pleasant at times but not to my spiritual taste
. Nor are the.......
queer clergy, lo siento.
Those people should be permitted
to worship---but ...at the pulpit???
No. The mainstream prot. churches errored in other words--in regard to allowing female pastors and ...non-hetero. clergy. Have you noted any female imams, hermano? no. The Anglican/epis. church has entered into chaos...
In that sense I respect the RCC
tradition--the non-hypocritical at least--there are g*ys and lesbians in the RCC ranks. While they should not be bullied or harrassed they should not be given positions of responsiblity--ie, priesthood.
That said, Mass in Seattle or Canada..or Nor. Ireland, etc. is not Mass in east LA, or ciudad de Mexico.
i for one
ReplyDeletewas honored
that you chose
to share bread and cup
with us bad catholics
like jesus
eating with
the tax collectors and sinners
is that you J?
vaquero?
hola!
hola S.
ReplyDeleteJ it is. Vaquero as in vacaville. :]
It is philistines who reject the sublime metaphor of Communion and the Mass--yet (assuming jhito doesn't mind a few nanoseconds of dissent)--at times, the Mass hardly seems different than the evangelical's "dispensation"--i.e., the Mass often works as a type of indulgence, as Luther might have said. What of the priest or bishop who offered communion each week to Lucky Luciano? Il Duce? Nazis? Sort of obvious but I ....don't accept the idea that....serious sins....or heinous crimes are washed away in that fashion. (Not sure how they are). Der Fuhrer might have been fed a few boxes of sacred ritzes by a priest (that is, before Goebbels shot him), to no avail ...he was on his way to the Malebolge (or in a different lexicon, most likely returned to an animalic level of existence per the wheel of the..Dharma). ah guess Im a bad cat. too.
i interrupt this fruitful discussion to say
ReplyDeletehappy birthday jh
ok
now back to your regularly scheduled ecumenical conundrum
(hi J)
even if i can't understand it
ReplyDeletei find it difficult to put any limitations on
the mercy of god
i bear that in mind when i approach the altar
chesterton's fr. brown would say
is it human
is it sinful
then i am culpable
all human sin
is familiar to my soul
it is your faith which made you well
said jesus to the woman who touched the
fringe of his cloak
and a few others
years ago i went to a retreat at valyermo
ReplyDeleteled by fr luke and called
getting out of hell
he mentioned some ancient christian idea
about the restoration of all things
proposed by origen i think
i think the idea was that maybe
even satan would be redeemed
at the end of time
i guess this didn't make it into orthodoxy
but fr luke did also refer to a book
by one hans urs von balthazar entitled
dare we beleive that all will be saved?
i cannot say that i have read this book
(my sweet texas mother-in-law
has at least read parts of it)
but fr lukes synopsis of balthazar's conclusion was
maybe we ought not dare to BELIEVE that all will be saved
but sure ought to HOPE that all will be saved
if i accept God's forgiveness for my own sins
how can i ever withold forgiveness for others
no matter how heinous their crimes?
my new favorite book
is tattoes on the heart
by fr greg boyle
who works with gang members in l.a.
maybe hitler just needed
a fr. greg in his life
it sure seems to me
that hitler was living
in a hell of his own making
while he was alive
what sort of existence he has now
i could not say
nazis taking communion?
i hadn't thought much of that before
would christ deny himself
to those persecuting his children?
he did not withold his forgiveness
from those who crucified him
even without any repentance on their part
father forgive them
they know not what they do
Universalism, I believe those in the theo-biz call it. I sort of agree, at least for normal sinners--me or Mussolinis or Magdalenas (Hitlers or Stalins or Tamerlanes..another matter). Eternal perdition does seem a bit heavy....yet IIRC RCC and El Papa Benny himself....disapproves.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletei find myself intrigued
ReplyDeleteby the flannery o'connor quote
maybe she is right
maybe that's why most protestant churches
have communion less often
they can't be bothered
to go to all that trouble
just for a symbol
but my goal is to remain connected
to the whole church
even as i venture toward catholicism
so i should try to understand
the reformed position on communion
surely the original intent
in viewing communion symbolically
was not for the purpose of diminishing it
surely that was only
an unfortunate side effect
i think part of the problem may lie
in that little word "just"
or "merely"
or the view that something
that is symbolic
is "only" a symbol
and has no reality to it
i still intend someday
to look into this concept
of "real symbol"
jh--
how would you describe
the role of symbolism
in the catholic liturgy?
surely there are many things
in the liturgy that are symbolic
so symbolism has its place
(just not when describing the eucharist?)
it seems to me that there are many
symbolic acts that are actually
quite worth doing
(i'm not arguing for a symbolic
interpretation of the eucharist--
just trying to understand
the proper role of symbolism)
i suppose in the non-catholic church
the motivation for following through
with communion as a symbolic act
is simple obedience to christ
he said: do this in remembrance of me
so we do
admittedly
the catholic understanding
is much richer
in the presbyterian church
i don't hear much talk
of God being present in the service
(whether communion is served or not)
i suppose it is assumed
at very least there is surely
an awareness among some parishioners
that "where two or three are gathered..."
in the evangelical church
particularly the more charismatic ones
that john and i attended years ago
there was very much a sense
of God being present in the service
and that there was really no other reason
to go through the motions except to meet God
no one used the phrase "real presence"
because what other kind of presence
could there be?
but we rarely had communion
maybe once or twice a year
God's presence was experienced
through the holy spirit
speaking to one's heart
i'm sure the pastors would emphasize
this happening through the teaching of God's word
but from what i could see
and from the way people talked about
"God showing up"
it was largely through the music
people opened their heart to God
in song
simple songs
heartfelt songs
not unlike the psalms
and people felt God's consolation
or conviction
or sometimes we didn't
and if that went on long enough
week after week
it did indeed
become harder
to go through the motions
ok that's all i got for now
more important to the eucharistic celebration is the "action" what is being said and what is being pointed to
ReplyDeletethe "things" the bread and wine do serve at one significant level as symbolic
(in eastern orthodoxy as i understand it they make no epistemological separation between symbol and reality...as in the theology of the icon...the icon teller 'the painter" creates an image which is designed to pray itself into the beholder)
and yes there is symbolism everywhere you look in the catholic church
the seriousness surrounding the celebration of the sacrament is conducted in regards to jesus' actual words as they were heard and as they've been preserved through each generation
so that
to involve oneself with the act of the eucharist is to not simply say
OK
that is bread - jesus' body
that is wine - jesus' blood
but to enter into the ancient rite of the last supper in an effort fo the heart to say
this is not just for present recognition this is a way to relive the sacrament of the past to enter into the mystery of what happened on that fateful night when christ humbled himself so completely
so it is not merely anamnesis ( not forgetting)
it is also
re-enlivening the ancient practice in the present making it new again today as it was then
in much the same way the jewish passover is celebrated not merely as a remembrance for the sake of religious identity but a way of bringing the story into the present
our practice entails the recognition of christ present in the body in the people gathered
in the breaking open the word in the person of the celebrant (the alter christus) and in the sacrament itself
it's an odd thing is some ways but it is consistent with religious ritual practice even in primitive settings
it is a suspension of time
yet an insistence on another level of time
this time
being one with ancient time
everytime the eucharist is celebrated the last supper is relived at that time
that's all ihave today
i may have to think about this some more
obviously
it gets a little heavy
but if bad catholics are going to stick together this is necessary i guess
confessio: the traditional catholics' insistence on intercessionary prayer sort of irks me. Watching some old lady in front of candles, a shrine, with pictures of her children--at times with tears--I don't know what exactly to call it, but I was filled with a sense of utter futility, jh. As a somewhat psychological exercise, I can understand it--a focusing or meditation. As an actual command, or worse, plea--I don't, really. Assuming prayers did work, wouldn't we know? And we don't. Millions of people pray, and yet ...to no avail. It might seem so, but we have no tangible signs. In that sense, I feel the RCC clergy often exploits the poor and gullible via the alleged power of prayer. That's not to...proclaim complete doubt--Humean Im not. But whatever Deity there is, he just doesn't respond to prayer messages.
ReplyDeleteone desires to face life with a sense of mystery
ReplyDeleteone seeks to address the darkness and pain of life with the hope i thngs unseen
one takes consolation in a few moments of trust in the witness of countless others through time
one knows in ones heart that prayers are answered
in surprising and suble ways in ways not always logical ro deductive
it may be years before one realises that a prayer was indeed answered
i ask god: don't give me what i want give me what i need (aaron neville of the bros.)
i think the whole prayer thing would've been chucked long ago had not some attested to its value..and it is bigger than christianity the disposition to pray is universal
every heart does it in one way or another
at some point
there are reasons in the heart that science cannot plumb
one could argue that the highest and most healthy mental activity known to humanity is
the act of prayer/meditation
the rosary is an unmatched soporific
it attacks restlessness at the core
i was once in the cathedral in washington dc listening to a young genius on the organ play buxtehude and bach it was superb all during the concert there were ladies entering and leaving the church oblivious to the young genius they were lighting candles and stopping to pray toward teh end soem commotion broke out in the back soem street flks were hagglign with a pries over things they wanted or needed...the last piece was delayed until the mayhem settled
i thought
how very catholic all of this
genius piety and desperation
all in the same instant
there has been some recent evidence from science
that the stress relieved by prayer is connected to a lessened risk for heartfailure and cancer
when all is said and done it is
a time tested salve against the
given chaos that life brings
those little old ladies are warriors with whom no one can contend
sorry about all the typos
ReplyDeletethinking faster than my fingers
my comment was a bit rash-- scuzi jh. Delete it, iywt.. Yet.........I ve never perceived tangible, positive results from prayer. Perhaps some people do. Meditative benefits perhaps, but ..that seems quite different than what the pious claim.
ReplyDeleteThere's a slight...philosophical issue tho probably trite to you: people, at least sane ones, don't pray for supernatural miracles--say, an amputee growing back a leg. Or ....dead coming back to life. That won't happen. It's usually like...one prays for good fortune. Or in the fiendish Hitchens' example--rain in drought. Or maybe peace, etc. So those are borderline cases--at best, if it does rain (Ive heard local baptists say they can make it rain) they....make a "post hoc ergo propter hoc" claim--our good prayers made it rain, or rather compelled God to let it rain!! Yet what about all the times it doesn't rain, or ..when bad things/disasters happen?? Hurricanes/quakes occur, and the converse happens--the church people say they aren't praying enough, or there's some evil lesbian in the choir, etc. Prayer politics gets rather absurd quickly.
certainly the broad spectrum of christian
ReplyDeletemodes of disposal to god create some confusion about what prayer is
there's the hail mary
then there's the hail mary pass
back in the dustbowl days people prayed and prayed for months years
nothing
the fundamental idea inherited from judaism
is that the god of israel cannot be swayed
cannot be coerced
cannot be induced to do anything
whatever came good or ill came to be interpreted as the will of god and that god
could and eventually would bring good out of ill
or evil if you will
i wonder if hitchens thinks about prayer
he's on his last go around i here tell
there's a famous story in central minnesota
about a grasshopper scourge that ate up all the crops and pretty well brought people to ruin
the next year when it threatened to happen again some priest heard the
voice of god and promised to build a chapel
with that the grasshoppers hopped away
and the crops were saved
the chapel still exists it's called the grasshopper chapel and every summer the
farmers around there gather in memory of the tough times
and to celebrate the relatively good times now in comparison probably exaggerating the bad times of long ago
on one hand it is relatively innocuous human activity even god must look amused at times
on the other hand it is the thing that hold s some peoples lives together
to live by faith is another dimension
for those who don't or who don't care to it is hard to explain what the good of it is
it's like an open secret
those who know arent' saying
those who are saying probably don't know
lord, teach me to pray
jh
Did God change His mind on his upcoming grasshopper invasion because of the prayers? That seems a bit strange--by definition, he would already know when people are in trouble--facing pestilence, a hurricane, drought etc. When the big 'cane or flood or cyclone comes ...pray all you want but that won't stop it. AS a type of meditation--or adoration, or hymn...prayer is somewhat understandable. As an actual petition to alter nature...an error IMHE. The old romans-- Aurelius, etc-- did not approve of the early christians prayers (or those of jews and, later, muslims)--possibly dangerous as well (is soldiers falling to their knees, etc).
ReplyDeletewho knows the mind of the lord
ReplyDelete-- st paul to the church in rome
i think of prayer
ReplyDeleteas an aligning of one's own will
with God's
jesus spent long hours in prayer
in the garden of gesthemane
bringing his genuine, human desires to God
and then letting them go
or perhaps it is more correct to say
that he entrusted them to God
he made his desires known to God
and then was willing to trust
that whatever God did
was for good
Hola J
ReplyDeletei appreciate your articulate words
about evolution over on de gustibus
(no disrespect to you, jh
onward, rocinante
fight the good fight
seek the truth!)
Thanks, Sally.
ReplyDeleteI'm sort of caught between the fundamentalists and the...secularist-atheist gang--not really fond of the S-A gang, but...unlike most baptists and mormons I've met (and other...fundies) they're not trying to arrest me or have me killed, AFAIK . A men.